Intervention Question: How we can create ways to connect Indian Artisans to work with the Fashion / Film Industry?
Divyak D’souza is a Stylist, Costume designer, and creative consultant based out of Mumbai, India; Formerly worked as Fashion Director for Harper’s Bazaar Bride, Fashion Editor for Femina & Stylist for ELLE & GQ magazine.
We had a detailed discussion on our Intervention question , where we are able to churn out the ways to develop a bridge between Artisans & Fashion/ Film Industry.
Divyak, explained the current working scenario of the phenomenon of work in between Artisans and Fashion professionals.
He mentioned few small projects are easy to work with the Artisans directly. But on the other hand, large-scale projects require intermediaries for better coordination and developments. He mentioned that big designers like Manish Malhotra, Sabyasachi works directly with a group of dedicated artisans where it’s quite painless to work.
He also shared his views on Fashion weeks – development and sustainability of designs. He agreed that this sector is unorganized , and mentioned about the challenges in the pandemic situation.
On the other hand, we had a discussion about the concept of ethical intermediaries, where he agreed to the fact that the process becomes a bit organized while working with them.
My intervention proposal of working with Disha Sahu as Ethical Intermediary was something he really agreed upon working in the future. He mentioned that few clients / brands approached him to create customized hand crafted styles for their shoot .
In our next step toward this intervention would be execution of this process.
Transcripts:
Vanshaj- Hi Divyak, it was becoming very tough to contact people from Indian fashion industry because of the COVID .
Divyak – Yeah, no one’s at work , back to work yet because they’re still lockdowns across like Bombay’s lockdown till the end of June I’m in Goa which is in lockdown since June so it’s just it’s a little bit sketchy at this point in time but slow and steady I think June is going to be a tricky man maybe July or August at least from my guesses.I feel August at least my kind of work might pick up let’s see hoping for the best
Vanshaj – So, as everyone knows you are one of the established and renowned film and fashion stylist from India. My primary objective of the research is that how can Indian artisans directly work with the fashion professionals .This research project is to intervene the current situation so that the Indian artisans can get the equal benefits what the intermediaries get and this will also overcome the problems like inappropriate wages to the copying of designs right what artisans do directly they do not get enough recognition. My idea is to create a bridge between fashion world and Indian artisans. I just need your thoughts how it is possible and how what you feel are the ways to build this bridge. So I’m right now in the phase of thinking out that how we can do not the execution part but right observation and thinking part of the project so you do not to worry about that how it will happen. Alright these are the challenges. So we are only talking about the ways we can do or there is a concept of ethical intermediaries where we can assign people those are ethical intermediaries and sourcing agents or third person who talk to them and they can get the fabrication done from the artisans , you’re free to say
Divyak- I think I mean what you’re saying is very valid and it is definitely something that even I think about a lot because you know over the last couple of years in fact there’s been a lot of initiatives that have been happening locally within our fashion industry at least with you know platforms like Lakme Fashion Week, which is one of the premier fashion weeks that happens in India right and their organising committee has like one day dedicated to sort of sustainable designers that work directly with Indian craftsmen you know, whether it is textile weavers whether it is a certain kind of you know lost art and crafts from remote parts of the country you know people who might be losing jobs are because industrialization of fashion has taken over our market as well. Um, so there is that one in initiative that comes to mind when we talk about you know, directly engaging with the craftspeople I’m honestly I will have to do a little bit of research as to which craftspeople exactly which designer used but if you just go through LAKME fashion week’s sustainability over the last couple of years, when they’ve done it, I think even in terms of research that might throw up some names of you know, which designers are working with which craftsmen and you know, in what capacity so that’s, that’s probably something that, you know, we can do in case you need examples. But I think as far as my line of work is concerned, I mean, like you said, I work as a stylist, and a costume designer and the primary work that I do, it’s advertising Related so you know costumes for say ad films or fashion brand campaigns I do a little bit of editorial fashion as well and you know some amount of celebrity dressing given the nature of the work that I do and especially with styling in India in general My only worry is that it is itself currently a very disorganized sector you know, we don’t really have even let’s say a union or a centralized body that just looks into costume stylists and their issues and their demands, concerns etc. And that’s something actually the pandemic has unfortunately or fortunately taught us you know that in a time like this where there’s no safe work happening we can do shoots we can be on sets with large amounts of people um, there isn’t really someone looking out for costume designers you know the, the entire set of people that works in this space they’re pretty much bereft and left on their own , even when we do photo shoots or when we’re working with various production houses or various clients, there is a lot one thing in terms of just basic professional ethics even within that space you know, you see a lot of budgetary issues for example like I’m not also there’s no kind of a fixed rate card for example for stylists you know you pretty much charged you caught what you think you deserve and if you get that rate then that rate gets set in the market and if people want you badly enough they’ll pay you that rate right so but having said that, there’s a lot of undercutting that happens you know, nowadays especially because brands are so budget conscious you know, they would rather work with the stylist to charges less even if that means a qualitatively sorry to say it but not so superior product. You know, I think everything is very money driven. And that falls in line then with everything that the style is does right. So for example, if I’m signed on to style an ad campaign for x y Zed brand, and they need me to custom design a certain outfit or a certain look that the model or the actor in the ad is going to wear. They keep very, very strict budgets on these costumes and the costume costs and then the stylist is of course obligated to submit on you know, proper GST invoices for everything that is purchased or created for that job. Now when they set a budget super low what oftentimes happens for the stylist is that you’re just trying to get the job done in the budget that the client has provided you so tomorrow the burden will then fall on stylists because i don’t i mean i’m just for seeing a slightly unfortunate position where say if I had to directly work with a certain textile Weaver or a certain craftsmen in any part of the country, that’s not going to be an inexpensive process you know what I mean? Because it will indeed these guys usually don’t sit in the main cities where shoots happen right we won’t have the kind of fabrics you seen as higher kind of the kind of crafts that you see happening in South all those to access those people there will be flights involved you will have to visit the place you will have to spend time with the vendor you will have to get things made according to your brief, which won’t be and you know, it will probably be a very small order because shoots are not on the scale of retail right so you’re probably making maybe one to five costumes total, you know, um, so I don’t really see the fiscal sense in say at least someone from my community like a stylist or a costume designer, directly liaising with artisans, I think that might actually be more inconvenient you know what I’m saying for both parties, the vendor as well as me, who in this case will be the customer, you know? So I’m just like, like you said, we’re not really dead set on any specific ideas here, but just to sort of discuss it out loud. I do think that some kind of a middleman or a governing body that takes this business seriously and can be that bridge. Um, you know, I know there is a government has textile ministry set up, but I find largely all of their moves are quite pedantic. You know, you hear a lot you’ll have the Fashion Week, you might have the one or short film that’s made for awareness. But um, I think it’s a very, it’s a great idea, actually. And while talking to you actually, it’s come to me that involving the whole industry that works in costume styling and costume design, particularly for bollywood movies, I would think because that’s the biggest expenditure, they have the biggest budgets. But definitely roping in an it will not happen casually. It’s not going to be something that say a movie designer or person who’s doing costumes for movies is going to be able to do on their own right, because with limited time limited budgets, your first instinct is to go rush to some, you know, a ready to wear store or a high street brand, or a designer who’s already made those clothes. You know, you’re not going to specifically go and seek out a crafts person unless it’s, you know, something super integral to a character, a super integral to the plot of a film that or a show or whatever that you’re styling, and that’s very rare. So if you want it to happen on that scale, I think if there was someone who’s slightly more accessible some kind of either a body or a committee or you know an organization that could sort of bridge that gap, whether it means you know, drawing up an archive of available artisans across the country with a little bit of literature and information on what their crafts are what kind of you know, simple logistical things like what turnaround times they will need in order to deliver x y z volumes of you know, fabric or embroideries or whatever it is. Because that is something currently I feel only couture designers in our country do. Um, so, you will see Manish Malhotra going to Kashmir and you know, giving orders to embroiders there for his next collection, you will see service actually working with textile Weaver’s in Kolkata to get a certain kind of silk. Um, so there is already that is already happening quite actively on, you know, in terms of local homegrown couture brands, they engage with our weavers and artisans and craftspeople, a fair amount. But yes, as a costume designer, I think if I had some kind of, I mean, it’s not so far fetched either, right? If there was that, let’s say, an app, where I knew I had an inventory of all the kinds of vendors that I might have access to, whether it’s a block printer in Jaipur, whether it is like I said, tribal textiles that happen in charcoal, you know, I’m just sort of ready, like, you know, so that then I can sort of, place my order for what I might need. And there are set rates for this, there is a set timeline for this, and there is somebody looking out for the interest of these guys as well, you know, and it’s not just 500 different costume stylists harassing some poor artisan who may not necessarily have the the tech savviness that say we have, and who may not necessarily understand what kind of budgets we work with here. So I think some kind of a body that could monitor and guide this process and bridge people across both sides, I think that would be a fab idea. I don’t know if that makes sense to you? Or what are your thoughts on it?
Vanshaj- Actually, I started with a question that direct bridge in between artisans, and professionals. But my questions got evolved, as we discussed ,as we researched deep, as per the current scenario. What’s happening actually, so we came to an concept of ethical intermediaries. So these will be the parties or people those are registered, and those have a valid certification to get the job done from artisans. And they are and they will like give the appropriate wages to them. And also we are like, I’m also planning to incorporate some training modules, some education awareness so that they know about the intellectual property rights and and all they know exactly because all artisans are not aware about the their IP rights and this will be a good, very good initiator so that they are aware about their designs, and they can like Oh, stop the stealing of their designs. And so right now I’m working on a concept where either the artisans can work directly with the stylist and costume designer, or if it’s like, if it’s a like big budget for actual like, huge bodies are involved in the process, then it can be to the ethical intermediaries.
Divyak – I agree. And you know, in fact, in the lockdown, there was this really cool brand that reached out to me on Instagram. Their name is Johar gram on IG , Check him out. So basically, it was it was it was educational for me too, because I had no idea that that specific fabric that they work with was indigenous to a particular tribe that exists in archives, and they weave that fabric they have been doing so for centuries generationally, and because of the lockdown I think a lot of the vendors that placing orders etc, you know, weren’t really giving them the business they were used to. So what Johar Gram essentially the people behind that brand did is they became the sort of gap and they started creating products, simple things first, like they started with masks. Then they went into you know, simple shirts. Eventually, uh, you know, they started doing some cooler pieces like bomber jackets and dresses, using just the textile that these tribes people make and, you know, they’ve used Though the medium of social media and it was lovely to see so many prominent you know stylists and magazines and celebrity stylists wearing the masks and actually the product is really good because they sent me a mask too and I liked it so much I ended up buying you know stuff for me and my friends as gifts you know um so I know it’s it’s a small little thing but it’s an example you know that there is a distinct possibility to take these these these people and they crafts and while doing them justice also give the customer something new and unusual, right. So I thought that that was one great example that came to mind when you mentioned a sort of ethical intermediary. Um, I think these are the guys you know, this is one example of someone who’s actually doing that you know, so I don’t know if your research involves speaking with them as well but they might be a good reason.
Vanshaj – exactly. So this is a definitely a very good idea. And as a first step of my intervention so I would like to I got one idea that my friend is from National Institute of fashion technology and she’s working directly with the artists since and she has recently started her work and she has a very good knowledge of craft and art because she is an textile engineer. So what do you think? Sure, yeah what if in future if you want something handcrafted or anything like a stole or scarf in kalamkari or any kind of art you can say so we may run one intervention that you can give me your requirement and I can talk to her so her name is Disha , she can act as an ethical intermediary and get done that product for for your any one you can say project and and yeah, so there will be no cost involved because since this is a testing of my project so right yeah, so we can like get something done from the artists through this ethical intermediary for photoshoots and we can run this intervention.
Divyak- yeah you know in fact it’s so funny because just today I got a call for you know there is an ad film that’s being shot in Bombay in a couple of weeks once lockdown ends and the brief is very simple they’re just looking for you know a custom made bikini with a custom made sort of slightly elaborate road to go yeah bikini so for example now the director of the film has told me quite generally speaking that he would like some kind of a detailing on this road he doesn’t really want a very elaborate piece but any kind of craft it could be something as small as embroidery on the sleeves and the Himalaya or it could be a certain kind of silk in fabric.
Yeah so it’s correct so I mean in terms of now what we’re discussing if that had to pan out practically what then I would do as the stylist on this job is I would first need to submit some kind of visual referencing to the client and the director because these are not people who work regularly with clothing and fabrics and stuff so for them their vocabulary and knowledge of this is limited so I have to present to them visually what kind of a textile what it look like what is kantha if I’m planning to do contour detailing what that will look like you know maybe with the assistance of a sketch or some kind of reference photograph and put that together and share it with them that this is the idea this is what we’re looking to create once I get that approval from the director client and the advertising agency on board then I can go ahead and commission the piece that exam been approved I mean that’s just your average advertising job that’s how it works. So as I was saying if there was like a person who for example even if there was like an inventory like supposing I need something block printed you know, somebody who knows block printers and can directly liaise with them to get this done, you know, um, so that kind of an inventory would be nice and handy as well, so that it’s not just one person who does one thing, but we can bring together all of the like, whether it’s at the shop who, like you mentioned, or Johar Gram, or like the Good earth, which is a brand that works very closely with block printers in Jeff poor, indulgences are different resources, but just bring them all together or list them all together, where costume designers have a ready reckoner because like I said, you know, the same job can be done in a much lower budget at a local tailor. It of course will not have the quality of craftsmanship. But you and I both know how quickly things move and how budget conscious people are So it’s bad, natural that they will end up picking the more inexpensive and you know, the process that takes less time. Yeah. That but if a stylist say has the option of a ready reckoner of resources, and you know, plans, their work was going away, I would then pick a vendor from that record from that list, as opposed to going, you know, to my same old tailor, you know, whatever, yeah, and be able to at least divide the business that I’m giving various people, right, like, my tailor can make the slightly simpler outfits, which don’t require much scale. Okay, that’s true. And then I can go to a vendor when I need something a little more special, you know? And also, that would be nice.
Vanshaj- Yeah. And also in this process of handcrafted, there is are very big timelines in between. So we have to correct that also.
Divyak- Yeah, and it’s very tricky when you do styling of any kind, because time is never something you’re given. the luxury of time is unfortunately, not with costume stylists, you know, sometimes our turnaround times are as early as like, in two days, we have to produce a custom stitched outfit, you know. So in that case, then it’s just a mad rush to various fabric stores. And then you pick up fabrics that they like, and then you give it to a tailor, and you pay him for overnight. And they’re all night, and it’s usually quite chaotic. And last minute process, that at least in my 13 years of styling, it’s not really changed, and I don’t see it changing. But yes, that’s that becomes another challenge. You know, when stylists have to directly deal with these guys, especially for such small orders, I feel like that might be something you need to address as a challenge.
Vanshaj- yeah, that’s true. So the work as a part of this research project, we can run this intervention and check the feasibility in future maybe.
Divyak – Yeah, absolutely. Please check contacts of whoever you have recommended. I’m very happy to connect with them. And you know, see how we can work together.
Vanshaj – Sure. Definitely. So I’m just writing down this as my intervention, thank you for being a part of my research project.
Divyak – You’re always welcome.
Vanshaj – Thank you, and I’m going to speak to you soon. you very soon. See you.